(gentle music)

- All right, hello.

Awesome, well, hi everyone.

Thank you guys so much for being here.

It's so awesome to see allof your beautiful faces.

Thank you for being a partof our panel discussion

for CBN's latest campaign called Unhooked,

Holy in a Hookup World.

Well, we're just gonna get real y'all,

we're talking about sex,

we're talking about dating,

we're talking about relationships,

and love as a single Christian

in today's kinda crazy hookup culture.

As you can see, we have an amazing panel,

come on, let's give them apretty round of applause y'all.

(congregation clapping)

Please allow me to take a moment

to introduce them to you all.

So first up we have Mo Isom Aiken

who is speaker andauthor of "Wreck My Life

and Sex, Jesus, and theConversations the Church Forgot."

- Yeah.- Yeah, all right.

(congregation clapping)

Next we have Alec Beverewho is a film director

and co-founder of "Sons and Daughters TV,"

and I add the last singleson of Lisa and John Bevere.

That's right.

(congregation clapping)

And then we have Jamal Miller

who is co-founder ofmarried and young.com,

and also the author of "25Ways To Prepare For Dating

Other Than Marriage,"can I get an amen people?

(congregation clapping)

And last, but certainly not least

we have Arleen Spenceleywho is a speaker and author

of "Chastity Is for Lovers" single, happy

and still a virgin, let's go.

(congregation clapping)

So before we get startedwith our questions

we have a short video wewant you guys to watch

that's really just gonna break the ice

and set the mood for a conversation.

So take a look.

- Okay guys, if you needanything else, just let me know.

- Thank you, thanks.

- Hey you look great, honey.

- You do, and we missed you.

- I know I've missedyou guys too, I'm sorry.

I've just been so busywith work and everything.

- We know that.

- And I've kind of beengoing through some things too

that's why I asked you both here tonight.

It's kind of awkward totalk about with your parents

so just give me, give me a (indistinct).

- You know anything about this?

- I feel like I keep puttingmyself in this continuous cycle

and it just needs to stop.

So that's why I've decidedto go on and intimacy fast.

- What is that?

- Intimacy, so like taking a break from-

- Yeah, I mean stopping altogether.

- Oh, wait a minute time out,

what do you mean stop?

When did you start?

- Prom a couple of years ago, I don't-

- Prom.

- The bottom line is I feel like

I'm being used by these guys.

- Oh my gosh.

Honey, did you say guys with an s?

- Yeah.

- Honey, listen, we needto be cool right now.

Our daughter is trying to talk to us.

- I understand that.

I just wanna make that shemeant to make it plural, honey.

I mean, there's a bigdifference between guys and guy.

- Okay, dad, you know I talk to guys

and hang out with them on a regular basis.

- Here we go with a guys thing again.

Whatever happened with,what's his name, Pete,

That's it, what happened to Pete?

- Pete, are you serious?

- Yeah, I liked Pete.

- Why are you even

bringing him up right now?- No, no, no that's not true.

- You hated him.

- Lily, it's obvious your dadis just having a hard time

adjusting to you as, a grown woman.

- Grown.- Thank you.

I am grown.

- She's still on our car insurance.

- Really, you're gonnahold that against me?

- Hey, you're in good hands honey.

- You offered that and it was your idea.

- The prom was your mom's idea.

- Oh my gosh.

- Lily, when you say intimacy,

I am gonna have to askwhat you mean by that.

I mean, is it a little it a lot?

- I mean, it's just one afterthe other, after the other,

and I feel like I can't catch a break.

Dad what's up.

I mean, do you think this is a good idea?

What are you thinking?

- What am I thinking?

Hey, is this a good idea?

What are you thinking, honey?

I mean, seriously guys with an s,

you can't catch a break,

I mean, are you even using protection?

- Protection?

- Yeah.- Yes.

- It's important.- Why would I need protection?

What are you talking about?

Like a teezer, or a pepper spray?

- No, no, no, no, howabout trying a raincoat,

you know what I mean?- A raincoat?

Why would I need a raincoat?

- Seriously?

- Oh my gosh.

Okay, do you guys thinkthat I'm talking about sex?

- Yes.- Oh my gosh.

- What is it Lily?

What is it, what?

- Hey.- Hi.

- Sir, you need to keepit down, just a touch.

- Do you enjoy breathing son?

- [Woman] Honey.

- Yes sir.

- Oh my gosh.

- It might be time to leave.

- Oh my gosh.

- Give us a sec, give us a sec.

Okay, and your father and I,we put two and two together.

- And you said these guys with an s,

can't catch a break.

I mean, what else could it be Lily?

- Oh my gosh that's not whatI'm talking about at all.

- Not sex?

- No, I'm talking about

taking a break from dating, not sex.

- Wait a minute,

so you are not being physically intimate

with young men your age?

- Okay the way you wordedthat was really weird.

- [Man] What do you want me to say.

- No, I am not having sex with people,

you could have just said that.

- Oh, well, in that case,

let's get that nice waiter back over here.

Excuse me everyone, drinks are on me.

(crowd cheering)

- Lily, what is the real reason

that you decided to goon this intimacy fast?

- Honestly, it's a God thing.

I mean, I feel like if Ican trust Him with my soul

why can't I trust Him with my heart?

- I can't tell you how proud of you-

- We're so proud.

- You're mom and I are.

- We're so proud.

I mean, just look at you, you're glowing.

- Why would you saythat, she's not glowing.

- Well, not in that way.- She's beautiful.

- You know what?

I really think your dad and Ishould go on an intimacy fast.

- You should.

- You think?

(indistinct)

- You've had enough, I'mgetting the cheque, stay.

(congregation clapping)

- Well, to give you guysa little bit of background

that skit is actually based

on my own personal journey and testimony

of deciding to go on a yearlong intimacy fast that's right?

No dating, no flirting, no relationships,

no physical intimacy, for a whole year.

And to give you guys alittle bit more background

as I said in the skit, Iwas just tired of it all.

I was continuouslyputting myself in a cycle

of just dating to date, greatguys but deep down I knew that

it's not what the Lordwanted for me at the time,

and it wasn't gonna work out,

and I was just dating to date

and expecting God to just plop my husband

down right in front of me.

But it wasn't until I actuallyread Mo Isom Aiken first book

"Wreck My Life," where I really felt

the Lord called me to giveHim a year of my life,

where there was norelationships, no dating,

no intimacy, just reallysoaking in His presence

and soaking in the season of singleness

that He purposefully placed me in.

Relationships with something that I really

had to surrender to the Lord,

it was something thatI was trying to control

and hang on to.

But I really had to cometo a point in my life

where I just really had to trust God.

I had to trust God with relationships.

And I really had to come to a point where

I needed to be content, but most of all

I needed to be content enough to know

and believe and stand firmin the fact that Christ

is enough for me regardlessof my marital status.

So that's why we're here tonight y'all,

that's why we encourageyou guys to come out,

because we wanna encourage you

to take a 40 day intimacy fast,

not a year, so don'tget scared just 40 days

and we have an amazing devotional

ready for you guys to sign up intake

tonight if you pull outyour phones you can,

you can go to cbs.com/unhookedto sign up for that

because we want you guys toreally just be transformed

and renewed in your mind.

And I look forward towhat God is going to do

in the season of singleness in your life.

But not only will you geta devotional every day

for 40 days, you'llactually get this awesome

companion journal to follow along in.

It's got day one, day two,all the way to day 40.

Now that the stage isset, the ice is broken

who's ready for some toughquestions, anyone, all right.

(congregation clapping)

Okay, so the first question goes to

the lovely woman of God, Mo Isom Aiken.

As I mentioned, I readyour book, "Wreck My Life"

where you talked abouttaking a year off of dating.

And if you could just giveour audience a little bit

of background into howthe Lord led you to that,

and what it did for you.

- Yeah, I had grown up church.

I'd grown up knowing a lot about God

but didn't truly know God.

And it was through a lot of adversity,

and a lot of life circumstances,

and a lot of depression, and anxiety,

and promiscuity and seeking wholeness,

and seeking belongingin all the wrong places

for a long time,

that ultimately set the stage for God

really just interrupting mylife in a really powerful way

and revealing to me who He was.

And when I came to place my faith in Jesus

He just started to the cryof my heart really was like,

I don't want this comfortableChristianity anymore,

I don't want to just know a lot about you,

I wanna know you and Iwant you to wreck my life,

and I want you to redefine my life,

and so I want you todismantle anything in me

that needs dismantling.

And one of the very first things

He really brought to thesurface for me was sexuality,

was my identity as a woman,was all things relationship.

And I was like that's not actually Lord

that I first wanted.

So if we could do someother work and He was like,

no, no, no and He broughtit all to the surface,

because it was a struggle for me

I had struggled a lot with promiscuity,

kind of waving that vain virgin banner

but pushing the envelopeas far as we possibly could

behind the scenes,

hearing the church withthe rule list of do this

don't do that and caringabout behavior modification

but never getting heart transformation.

So when I said, God, I really want you

I don't wanna just believe in you,

I want you to be Lord, Lord of my life.

And He was like, give me all of you

so that I can pour out all ofme into you, give me a year.

And I was like, what about a month?

And He was like, give me a year.

And what it looked like for me

was a monogamous relationship with God.

Therefore I treated everybody else

as if I was in a committed,monogamous relationship.

I didn't date, I didn'tflirt, I wasn't physical,

it was just a season of stepping away.

And I think what's beautifulabout fasting ultimately

is that, it shifts thefocus off of us and onto Him

and that's how it should be.

We're creatures made in Hisimage, made to worship Him.

And we've got to beginto marry our sexuality,

our relationships, ouridentity into that mold.

So yeah, I don't thinkI'd ever heard of somebody

using the term intimacy fast

I thought it was quite brilliant.

I called it kiss list till next Christmas,

and I blogged it.

And I was like-

- Mine didn't have a cute name like that.

- Yeah, no, it was brilliant marketing,

but literally, no one joinedthe movement so it was just me.

But I persevered and it was cool.

- I love that.

Well, Jamal, this one goes to you.

You have married a young.comwith you and your wife,

and then you guys alsohave the one university.

And I know that you also encourage singles

to give God a year of their life.

So kinda talk about that

and why do you think it's so important

for especially single people,

to really get right withtheir intimacy with God

before moving into intimaterelationships with other people.

- Absolutely, and it's so coolfor Mo hearing her journey,

her story, 'cause it was like

God must really lovedthis year concept, right?

For me, I fell in love with love

before I fell in love with God.

And I was so excited at the thought

of being in a relationship,

I remember at thebeginning, my high school

and college years just dating around,

and consistently fromrelationship to relationship,

and I remember being ina situationship right,

me and a young lady it was one of those

where we we're just off and on,

it was just like, we cool.

And so one night we were alone together

and by the grace of God in this moment

I was still a virgin.

And I just had this thing in my spirit

I was like, man, tonight, it's tonight.

And as things begin toprogress into your imagination,

everything stops, and I'm like,

I just literally seemyself on my wedding day

and I hear the Lord say,if you compromise now

you'll compromise forthe rest of your life,

and in conviction just gripped me.

And I looked at her and Isaid, hey, we can't do this.

And so she leaves and there's no pastor,

there's no violin, piano playing,

I mean, it's just straight,you know what I'm saying?

In my bedroom, like, God, Idon't even know if you're real

but I just need right now foryou to show me who you are.

And I remember God,just His love just came

and just like, I mean, for thefirst time I felt His love,

like the real love of God.

And I felt that same word from the Lord,

Jamal, give me a year.

I want you to be focusedon me for an entire year,

no dating, no looking, I wantyou to give me everything

because if you can't commit to me

how are you gonna commit to a woman?

- Amen.- That's good.

- And it was almost a placewhere God was challenging me.

And I was like, "Oh my God, you called me,

I can commit to you, what's up"

(congregation laughing)

And I said, "Okay, God,I'm gonna give you a year."

And y'all from that year,I am by the grace of God,

I was able to marry my wife a virgin,

and I was able to experience

the most amazing moments with her

(congregation clapping)

because I fell in love with Him,

which made it to whereI couldn't fall in love

with anybody else that didn't have Him.

And that's what that year did for me

it solidified that God,you are my number one,

and no one else will ever have His place.

- Yeah, that's powerful.

Well, Arleen, we got aquestion for you, girlfriend,

you ready?

- Yeah.

- Okay, so I feel like alot of people in the church,

especially and even outside of the church,

are afraid of intimacy

in the form of a committed relationship

however, they're okay with intimacy

in the form of physical intimacy

and doing probably the mostintimate thing you can do

with someone which is have sex with them.

Why do you think hookingup is the norm today?

- Yeah, hooking up really is the norm.

As Ashley mentioned, thesubtitle of my book is

"Single, Happy, and Still a Virgin."

And as I was in the stage that I imagine

many of you are in college age,

I started to realize very quickly

that the lifestyle that I had been living

was very unlike thelifestyle of the young adults

that surrounded me.

And we were always taught,save sex for marriage.

That was the message,save sex for marriage.

But that was where the message ended.

It was as though peoplewho were older than we were

and wiser than we were only wanted

to build a wall between us and sex.

And the problem that that caused

was that kids were told save sex,

but they were never told what sex is.

And so according to the media,

a lot of times sex is sort of defined as

a thing you do to figure out

whether you have chemistry with someone,

or a thing you do to have fun

with the person that you're dating.

And so as we get older, westart thinking critically

and we're like, who in their right mind

waits until marriage to figure out

if you have chemistry with this person,

or who in their rightmind waits until marriage

to have fun with this person,

and the answer is no one.

And so if you aren't giventhe correct definition of sex

a lot of times people realize

there's no reason for me to wait,

because they don't know what it is.

Whenever I speak to an audienceof youth, or young adults,

or parents, or teensand tweens I define sex

and I define it this way,

it is a sacred physical sign of the vows

that a husband and wife made on the alter

where they were married.

It is an expression of the unity

that is achieved by marriage.

Which implies that sexis not for single people.

And if we know that and wegrow up with that knowledge

it makes a lot more sense to wait.

- Alec, do you think thatChristians specifically,

over-spiritualize the processof dating and marriage,

and if so, why do we do that?

- Do Christians over-spiritualizeddating (laughs)?

- [Ashley] Yeah.

- No.

(laughs)

- No, I mean, you guys laughbecause absolutely we do.

I mean, I do too.

I mean, we all do it, but I mean why?

You said, why do we do it?

So in scriptures it says that

eternity it's written on our hearts.

And I think that that'ssuch an amazing scripture

but I think there's a lot of other things

written on our hearts.

If you think about it, beforethe fall ever even happened

before the fall ever evenhappened there was a problem,

does anybody know what that problem was?

Man was alone.

Wow, okay someone's beenreading the word come on.

Yeah, so man was alone.

So the very first problembefore there was even a fall,

was man was alone.

That we are beings thatare made for companionship,

that we are beings that aremade to be with someone else.

So yeah, we can easilytake ourselves to this area

that we over spiritualize it,

'cause we're so excited

about the person thatthe Bible talks about,

that one could set flight to thousands

but two can send flight to 10 thousands,

and that two were better than one

and that it is betterfor two to be together.

So yes, I would say that we definitely

over spiritualize things,but I forgive you.

(laughs)

- [Ashley] Yes, yes, yes, forgiveness.

- Please forgive me.

- Good, good answer.

Okay Mo, we need to talk about boundaries.

How far is too far?

- Girl you're asking the right person.

(Ashley laughing)

- How far is too far?

I mean, I feel like that'sa legitimate question

many of us face once we arein a committed relationship

with someone, I mean is kissing okay

'cause there are somepeople who don't kiss

until the altar.

What is your advice on all of that?

- So I'm gonna be the voice up here

that no one likes through thenight and that's fine with me.

'Cause I am theover-spiritualizer but truly-

- We just talked about that.

- I know, hash it out later.

I think it's the wrong question.

I think it's the wrong question

because this is what I grew up with.

Like I was mentioning earlier,

I grew up with do this don't do that.

I knew a lot about virginity

but no one talked to me about purity.

And the word speaks far more about purity

than it ever does about virginity.

And I think God cares far more

about the condition of our hearts

than he does about our behaviors,

because at the core purebehaviors flow from a pure heart

impure behaviors flowfrom an impure heart.

And so when our questionis, how far is too far?

It's what led me about twocentimeters from the final act

but still proclaiming I wasa good Christian virgin,

and half of my collegelaughing in the background

'cause they knew the reputation I carried.

I'd get passionate about this

because it was what Ireally think led me down

just a complete path of ignorance.

And ultimately, we love a lotof things we toss around love,

and we toss it around inour dating relationships

so flippantly and ultimatelythe only model of love

is steadfast, unchanging, true,

model of love is self-sacrifice,it's the cross of Christ.

And so we say, we love ourboyfriend or girlfriend

and that's why we're having sex with them,

but Paul would actually say that

if we're leading another into sin,

then we don't even love Christ.

If we're causing our brother,our sister to stumble

then we don't even love Christ.

And I just think if we trulywant to become a generation

that set free from this hookup culture

our question has to shift.

- I wanna add to.

I know for me and my wife,

we were a long distance andyou can just imagine, right.

Talking every day on the phone, texting,

it's just building, building, building.

And then we see each other,

I mean, we were, we dated for about a year

before I proposed.

And so we saw each other about four times

over the course of that year,

'cause I was in Chicagoand she was in California.

And so when we were coming together,

I mean you better believewe had made a decision

in the very beginning that,

hey, she had never been kissed before

I looked her in her face and I said,

"Hey, I wanna respect you,

and I wanna prove to you,like Christ proved to us

when He died on the cross for our sins.

He didn't just say, I love you,

He proved it by sacrificing Himself."

And I said, I want to proveto you my love for you

by showing you that I'mgonna respect you by not

crossing your boundary.

And that's why I alwayssay in a relationship

both of you have to have that conviction

'cause you're going to as you'regetting to know each other,

as you're growing, as you're learning,

you're going through theprocess y'all of falling in love

and the natural next stepthat God created for us

is to get married and enjoy the intimacy

that has been brewing between two people,

that is the power of love.

But the reality is we haveto demonstrate self-control

because sex is just like fire.

The moment embracedoutside of the confinement

it was created for for safety,

it now goes from place of being in joy

to now being dangerous.

And so when you see sex andnot being able to control it

what do you think you're gonna...

you can't control it when you're single,

you think you're gonnaimmediately know how to control it

when you're married?

'Cause who makes youthink that your spouse

is the last person youwill be attracted to?

Hello, wake up.

You have a flesh.

So if you can't learnhow to control yourself

with one person,

and you think you're gonnaimmediately now have one person

and you know how to do it withthat one person that's it,

you need to know how to practice it

before you even get married.

And that's the power of selfcontrol which by Christ says,

you can't do it without me.

Self-control is a fruitof the Holy spirit.

- Yeah.- Wow.

- And so I learned this and I was like,

okay God, I need your help

because this is not just a fight

to be able to say we did it,

this is a fight to prove to her

that I'm the man that can lead her.

And I'm getting her respectbefore I even get on one knee.

(congregation clapping)

- Yeah, great, yeah Mo.

- Me and Jamal should havesat next to each other.

(laughs)

I thought this was a-

(laughs)

(indistinct)

this was a fire line God gave me one time.

He said any boy can undress you

and make you feel likea queen for a night,

it takes a man to help armor you up

and point you to the king of your life.

- What, that's goal.

- Write that down.

- But it ties into what Jamalsaid I thought it was so good.

- Everything I justsaid, that was it right?

- Yeah.

(laughs)

- Well, Jamal, my nextquestion was actually

gonna be to you because Iknow you express that you

and your wife stayed pure and were virgins

until you got married.

But a lot of people,when you tell somebody

that you're waiting to have sexuntil marriage they're like,

I don't know how you do that.

I can't do that,

we have this magical connection.

And a lot of people truly believe that

you have to have sex withsomeone before marriage,

because you have to make sure

that you're sexually compatible.

What do you say to people who say that?

- If you're getting married just for sex

please do not get married.

Sex is a gift from God.

And it being a gift from God

you have the right contextof what sex is for,

it is for servanthood.

And what our culture has donewe've made sex because of

the explosion of social media,the explosion of pornography,

the explosion of sexual morality,

what we're seeing is thisselfish just acceleration

of me, me, me.

And so what we find because of

this desire of being sexually compatible

it's already a fixatedunderstanding or thinking

that sex is about you.

Sex is not about you.

Sex is the opportunity foryou and a significant other

a person that you love, aperson that you care about,

the one thing that God saysyou can't do with anybody else,

you can hug a person, youcan hang out with a person,

you can compensate with a person,

but He created one thing for you

and your spouse to share, and that is sex.

And for you to sit around

and allow anybody to have access to that

is degrading His gift.

And so when it comes to thisthing of sexual compatibility

sex gets better over time.

Let me tell y'all man, it getsbetter over time all right.

Yeah man, what do you mean by that?

Right, look, I got an amen over here.

- [Alec] See that hand.

- Sex is like wine y'all.

It gets better over time.

I mean, when I tell y'allmy sex life is amazing

I give God all the glory.

(congregation clapping)

And I'm telling you that as a married man,

of five years who waited, why?

Guess what, you know I can tell you,

I don't have any other woman in my mind

when I have sex with my wife,

I'm not thinking aboutany other experiences,

I'm not thinking about anybodyelse that didn't like this

that didn't like that,

I'm only thinking about her

because she's the onlyperson that I've experienced.

That is the beauty of sex done God's way.

And that's what I wanteach of you to experience

is the beauty of it beingdone God's way of you waiting

for the person thatyou say this is the one

I'm gonna spend the rest of my life with.

And when you do that I guaranteeyou that love will erupt

into a sexual experiencethat is like nothing

you've ever experiencedbecause guess what?

That person's not gonnaleave you tomorrow.

So do not go after sex for compatibility,

you go after purpose andyou find the right person

that you're gonna commit your life to,

and I guarantee you you'll be okay

just like Adam and Eve were.

- Yeah, all right Alec

let's talk about heartbreak and rejection.

- Heartbreak and rejection.

- Yeah.

- You asked them about sex,

and you want me to talk aboutheartbreak and rejection?

- Yes, yes I do.

So what are some steps?

'Cause I mean, how many of you guys

have been rejected or heartbroken?

Yeah, a lot of us, if not all of us.

So it's something that we all go through.

What are some steps that we can take

towards finding healing fromheartbreak or rejection?

And do any of those steps differif you are male or female?

- Okay, that's a good question.

I can definitely talkabout heartbreak for sure.

The rejection, I thinkthat one is really quick.

I'll talk about that really quick.

You guys, if you're goingfor a girl and she says no,

you got to get over it.

Like seriously, get over it,

I am proud of you for making that step

and asking that girl out, come on,

I'll give it up for you men.

(congregation clapping)

Seriously guys, if you get rejected

it's not the end of the world,

please do it again.

I've just... yeah, allright, do it, proud of you.

All right, so second thingwe're talking about heartbreak.

So I can really just speakfrom mostly experience.

Actually, at one pointin my life I was engaged,

and I was engaged tothis very beautiful girl,

she was an amazing girl,

and then all of a suddensomething changed.

It was heartbreaking.

I mean, this is somebodywho I was engaged to.

I mean, when I proposed toher, it actually made the news,

so it was a pretty good proposal.

I'm not trying to brag

but that really added toa lot of embarrassment.

Like, oh my gosh, I can't make this work,

I have to break up with her,but everyone's gonna know

I'm like, I don't get thewoman that I fell in love with

what am I gonna do?

And then when I went aheadand we finally broke it off,

and she was out in Atlantaand I flew back to Colorado

I broke it off with her

and no one was at my houseand I felt all alone.

And personally, I'll just tell you guys

I was on the kitchenfloor and I was crying,

I was just sitting there onthe floor and I was crying

that I felt like I hadwaited my whole life

for the woman of my dreams,

actually if you guysspeak about not kissing

until you guys are marriedI had the same thing,

I was like, I'm not gonna kissa girl until I marry my wife.

And I saved my lips for this girl.

And I'm like, what is that now?

I thought that you came to me

and that I had a momentthat you were like-

'cause I just had this likeconviction in high school

I'm like, I'm not gonna kiss a single girl

until I start dating a girlseriously and all that's gone,

all this other stuff has gone

and you guys heartbreak is real.

Heartbreak is really real

but I need to tell you what happened next

on that kitchen floor.

So the thing is,

is pain is also somethingthat's really real,

the pain is also somethingthat's very powerful,

pain is something thatconnects us not only to God

but to other people,

it connects us to other people so strongly

that my mother and I weboth have this saying

that we love saying it's,

we lead through our strengths

but we connect through our weaknesses.

And it gives you an eye,

it gives you the ability to talk to people

who are going through pain.

And when I was sittingthere in the kitchen floor

I just got this beautiful imagery

of God sitting down right next to me

bawling his eyes out,

and it was one of the mostpowerful things for me

just feeling thatsomebody understands pain,

that pain actually connects us to God,

that God came, He gaveHis life on the cross,

so He can understand pain,

for whenever we're going through it.

He took our pain

so that he could understandwhat we're going through.

That Jesus is the sameGod that wept in the Bible

whenever His friend died.

That He understands the heartbreak.

And you guys, I just wanna say

if you're going throughheartbreak right now,

if you have been in thatarea that pain is so powerful

take that one step closer to God

and He's gonna take those20 steps closer to you.

- [Ashley] Can we get, yeah.

(congregation clapping)

Thank you for sharing.- Can I add something?

- [Ashley] Add.

- Yeah, I'm gonna add something.

As Alec was talking, I thought of a memory

of one of my own heartbreaks

and I feel really compelled to share that,

few nights after a breakup,

I was driving home fromwork and it was dark out

and I started flippingthrough radio stations

and I landed on a Christian station.

And the song that was onwas "Good Good Father"

which I'm sure many of you know

and there's a line in it that talks about

falling deeper still intolove, deeper still into love.

And as I heard that line in particular,

I began to weep and I had this image of

falling deeper into love,

think about a depth and a depth is dark.

When you're in the depthsit can be very dark.

And in that moment, I had thesense that God was asking me

after a breakup, how deepis your love for this man?

How deep is your love for this man?

Could your love go sodeep as to let Him go

so that I could turn Him intowhat I created Him to be,

which might not involve you.

And that rock to me because I realized

that love doesn't evennecessarily end with a breakup,

sometimes a breakup comes because of love.

Sometimes the breakup comesbecause God has created you

for something else that doesn'tinvolve this relationship.

And for me, as hard as it wasthat night to go through that

I found so much hope and thinking that

there is a bigger planand there is a reason

that we go through thepain that we go through.

- Yeah, it's powerful.

Yeah, round of applause.

(congregation clapping)

We have couple more minutes left

for our panel discussion up here.

So if you guys have any questions

we're about to open the floor.

So if you have somethinggo line up to the mic

it's gonna be a couple minutes

until we get to your questions.

But the next one goes to Mo.

So why do you think the church

has made sex such a taboo topic?

- Oh, we're gonna dive in again.

Because frankly most peoplewithin the body of Christ

are dealing with the exact same sin.

I think that sexual sinespecially the enemy uses

to either puff us up in prideor to silence us with shame.

And by and large, I see body of Christ

which was designed to live differently,

be set apart from the worldin order to shift a generation

actually looking just the same

as the world around itand this generation,

and the shame that bringsa part of my testimony

was coming to know Christ, being set free,

being in a two year intimacy fast.

It went on two years becausefrankly it's just great

40 days, oh, knock it out of the park

you'll be three years deepand not wanting it to end,

it's worth it and it's amazing.

But you know, coming out ofthat I met my now husband

and I felt like I am equipped,

I am sure God has transformedme from the inside out,

I know X, Y, and Z,

but still the conversationshadn't really been

cultivated fully withme by way of sexuality,

and so I didn't know yet the boundaries

that we needed to be reallyintentional in setting up,

the accountability we needed

and so we fell back into sexual sin.

And scripture talks about the fact

that it's better to have never known truth

than to know truth and go back into sin

it's like a dog returning to its vomit.

And I'm like, that's mildlyharsh but it feels like it.

Because the weight of shame that came then

knowing truth, having beenset free of so many things,

and still choosing to choosefor myself what I wanted

over what I knew what was God'sbest, it was debilitating.

And so I got so excitedI forgot your question.

(laughs)

- Why do you think the churchhas made sex a taboo topic?

- And there we go, there we're back to it.

By and large we're strugglingwith the same stuff,

silenced by the shame of it,

and ultimately really noteducated on the fullness

of what God has to say about it,

or the fullness, and thebeauty, and the power

of His redemption through it,

and that is a big piece of the puzzle.

I mean, the firstconversation God ever has

with man involves sex.

So to talk in a healthyway about sexuality

is to look more likethe one who created it.

All through the word we see context of sex

the rise and fall of kingdomseven around sexual issues.

And yet we have listened moreto a world that's twisted it,

cheapened it, perverted it, worshiped it,

idolized it, and made it taboo,

and we've forgotten that wehave the privilege, the right,

the actual invitation and responsibility

to reclaim sex for the glory of God,

and to know truth, andhave Him renew our minds,

and have Him transform our hearts,

and have Him utilize our testimonies

with the blood of thelamb being sufficient,

but with the invitationfor our testimonies

to also defeat sin and carry power.

And there's a new chapter

that can come in the body of Christ,

we draw a line in the sand and say,

His mercies are new today

and I know He uses all for His glory.

So I will boast in my weaknesses to point

to the glory of the cross andI will leverage what was dead

and He brought back to lifefor His glory and for my good.

And that was a winding,but I just get excited

about the fact that we'reactually invited to speak

into this stuff and itdoesn't have to be taboo,

and it doesn't have to be shameful,

and it doesn't have tobe kept in the darkness,

'cause it's holy conversation.

- Yeah, amen, well, please give our panel

like an amazing round of applause.

(congregation clapping)

I wish we had more, oh my gosh.

All right, the floor isnow open to our audience.

So please come on up to the mic

if you wanna state yourname and then ask a way.

- Okay, good afternoon,my name is Devin Smart

so this question is for Alec.

So today I had aconversation in the office

and it got real heated.

The conversation was, doyou believe it is acceptable

to slide into someone's DMsto start a relationship?

(congregation laughing)

- Slide into-

- Slide into those DMs.

Hey Devin, appreciate the question.

I'm not sure if this wasplanted by you or someone else

but anyways, I'll answer.

So to slide in someone's DMsI think that is totally okay.

I have to give some adviceto slide into the DMs.

(laughs)

So my friends and I, we callwhenever you want to pick

up a girl not in a bad way,

but just to introduce yourself to a girl

or to ask a girl out, wecall superman in them.

So if you're superman and ifyou have the power of flight

and if you could fly fastthan speeding bullet,

and if you fly in that speed of sound,

you're gonna kill a girl, right?

If you try to fly intoreal quick and pick them up

so you're gonna kill them.

If you fly in super slow,like, hey, here I come

and then pick them up thisis gonna be weird, all right.

So what I'm gonna say is,

is please play to yourstrengths and take it slow.

I understand that we're ina interesting world nowadays

but just don't freak people out

otherwise the cops aregonna get called on you.

Devin or whoever asked.

- I'll add to it 'cause I'vesuccessfully slid into the DMs.

- Oh, come on now.- Okay.

(congregation laughing)

- So I met my wife.- Success story.

- Success story.

All right, Mark what's up man,

I thank you so much for creating Facebook.

So, I actually met my wife on Facebook

and we were complete strangers.

And so we hadn't met throughlike a Facebook group

we both were part of a prayer group,

and she had befriendedme much years before.

And I started seeing her on my news feed

long story short I'm like,

who is this pretty blackgirl on my news feed

talking about Jesus.

I mean, you know what I'm sayin'.

And so, I went to her pageand then she had a blog

I was like okay, so she'sserious about talking about Jesus

you're blogging about it.

And so I ended up just sending her a DM

just encouraging her to keepdoing what she was doing.

You know what I'm saying?

But hello, you know, I was like,

she ain't gonna message back,

she not gonna message back,

(indistinct) see that's where the speed-

- He didn't swoop in theresuper fast gonna kill him.

- So that was basicallythe start of it was

where I just sent her a message

and just encouraging herand then hey after hey,

if ever you ever need any encouragement,

anything, any advice about ministry,

just let me know nothing

and it took literally about nine months

it became just virtual friends,

a little like Instagram,

it went from Facebook toInstagram is getting good.

And it took about maybeabout nine months later

that one day my pastor asked me,

hey, do you have any onethat you are interested in?

And I was like, you know I don't,

and I not thought of Natasha.

I was like, you know what,

there's this girl I'vebeen talking to on Facebook

I was like, we kind of juststarted a little friendship

nothing serious and that's literally

where he encouraged me totake it to the next step.

'Cause so whenever I wentahead and kind of knew that

we were starting to likeeach other I was like,

hey, I would love toget to know you better.

And it was very upfront,

I didn't just keep playing the game

you know what I'm saying?

And so, but I definitely would say, man,

we are in a social media world

and it's happening every single day.

But just as well ladies,

I will tell you it's for social media

just be very careful how much attention

you're giving guys in the DMs,

be very careful whoyou're applying back to

how fast you do it,

be very careful with all that stuff

because guys like attention.

And so you just wanna kind ofjudge his motives immediately

and you can do that by just learning him.

- [Man] Ladies be like wonder woman.

It will leave a little wonder, all right.

(laughs)

- I wouldn't-- That was good, that was good

(indistinct) super briefly.

Is quite important the content

of what is sliding into their DMs.

So an encouraging word about her ministry

is gonna land a lot better than a picture

that makes her dry and drop her phone.

- [Man] That's right.

- So just be-

(congregation clapping)

- Wow, Arleen preach.

(congregation clapping)

- I noticed I was the purpose.

- I noticed how the line got a lot longer

(indistinct) all right next question?

- [Woman] Yeah, next question, yes.

(laughs)

- My name is Skye Stewart.

So I was actually wanting to know

what your thoughts wereon like creating lists

for future spouses or evenguys you're looking to date,

or girls you're looking to date,

just what your thoughts are on that.

- So, I'll just throw mine out.

I won't go through my list

but I'll give you theframework that I used.

And I basically had my negotiables

and my non-negotiables.

So your non-negotiables are

this is absolutely what I cannot accept

if the person does not havethese one, two, three things.

Love for Jesus, possibly call to ministry,

whatever thosenon-negotiables that you know

are going to create the suitability.

We know we need to know the difference

between suitability and compatibility.

Suitability is based around purpose,

compatible is basedaround licensed desires.

So the suitability isgonna be your purpose,

relationship with God, those things.

And then you're gonnago into compatibility

and that's your negotiable list.

And you wanna make surethat you are not saying

no to a person based upon negotiables.

Like these are things that are like,

hey, you know she made it for me,

it was like, that'd be dopeif she knew how to sing,

you know what I'm saying?

I was like God, I'll be supercool 'cause when I'm preaching

she can come do my offthe call, we can sing,

you know that I had thiswhole world built in my mind.

My wife can't sing a note y'all

I mean you know what I'm saying.

(laughs)

I mean she had just seen worse than me

I be like, babe, please(indistinct) I been trying to be

your dream woman 'causeI talk about all the time

that I wanted a girl who could sing,

but that was a negotiable,

it wasn't a non-negotiable,

so I didn't let my preferenceoverpower the purpose.

and so that's what I wouldsay for the list piece.

Anybody wanna, I mean (indistinct).

- That's good, that'sgood, it's called a lot.

(congregation clapping)

I love that you went through negotiable

versus non-negotiablebecause in my ministry

I can't tell you how manytimes people are like,

he's got to have a beard and I'm like,

does that affect his fatherhood?

Does that affect how goodof a husband he could be?

I'm like, no, no, no, youhave your preferences,

(laughs)

you have your preferences.

What did he say?

Did he say, yeah, did he say-

- [Woman] He's just bearded.

- I mean I guess maybe.

- I agree with those people.

(laughs)

- But you got your preferencesand you have your standards,

and standards arenon-negotiable and preferences

you can lax our way in a little bit.

- I'll add the quickest thing to tag onto

'cause once again I juststill upset everybody

but there was a harshrealization for me too.

In dating with my now husband Jeremiah

in the humbling reminderthat I was not perfect,

I was not his dream girl,

most likely I didn'tcheck every single box,

I'm can be honest about my weaknesses,

and my struggles and my pride.

And so I think sometimesespecially as women,

we create this list and we aresitting here shopping around

for the perfect individual.

And again, I'm talking aboutmore of the non-negotiable

or the negotiables,

but we've become thiscommercialized dating culture.

And we want happiness and guess what?

A lifetime valuing commitment to someone

is never intended to bethe generating power source

of your sustained happiness.

The gospel of Jesus Christand the cross of Christ is,

and the idea of marriage is ourclosest and greatest attempt

to model the gospel which looks like

being beaten down, whipped, lashed.

I mean persecuted by theshortcomings of another

and yet rising up in love,

and growing in endurance and patience.

And so I think we haveto loosen the grip some

on this commercializedpursuit of perfection

because when happiness fades,

why we see higher than a 50%divorce rate of people saying,

well you just don't do it for me anymore.

And I think we have torealize we are not perfect,

and also realize thatthere's no perfect person,

but there is a perfect Godwho can knit us together

in heart, in mind, in spirit,who can refine both of you

through the process ofrelationship and marriage.

And ultimately at the end of the day

your marriage can reflect moreof the goodness of the gospel

than it ever did of the mostInstagram likable couple

because they have chiseledjaw line and a tiny waist.

It's like, you're both gonna get fat

the jawline and the waste goes

everything fades but just the reality.

- Awesome, thanks forsharing, next question.

- Hi, my name is Hillary andI have a question for Jamal

or anyone else can jump in.

But nowadays, there's socialmedia and things like that.

What are your thoughts on online dating

and how can you do that in a godly way

in a way that honors God, ifthat's even a possibility?

- Absolutely, so I wouldsay this online dating

should not be your last resort

okay what do I mean by that?

If it's a, I've triedeverything and I don't know

if I'm even attractive toanyone, I can't get anyone,

I'm lonely, I'm desperate,is now my last resort,

you're gonna make a very baddecision doing online dating

because now you're comingout of a place of emptiness,

and you're looking to fill a void

that a relationship can not fill.

And so I'm not gonna not online dating

because a lot of people are doing it

and is actually successfulfor a lot of people,

and I wouldn't say just as unsuccessful

as in-person dating can be online,

online dating can be,

so to knock it and say, it's a bad thing

there are people out here dating in person

and it's just as bad andgetting just as heartbroken

and messed up as peoplewho are doing it online.

And so I would definitely tell you

that you definitelyneed to have a community

of people that are going to support you,

you need to have leadershipthat will give you

the peace to be able to say, yes,

this is okay for you to do it

I'm going to walk withyou through this process,

the same thing I wouldencourage the person who says

they're ready to enterinto a dating season

where you having peoplethere to help walk with you,

you have a leader to help guide you,

and you need to have that

for the same thing of online dating,

if you're doing it when no oneelse knows, then guess what?

You're setting yourself up for failure

because the enemy is gonna creep in

and use that against you.

And so we have a lot ofpeople in our community

that do try online datingand it's been successful.

And my prayer one dayis to create a whole new

community where we can do it the right way

'cause I would tell y'all,

I'm in the dating community with golly

you know what we do online,

so I actually went oneday on Christian Mingle

and I created a dummy account

not this is real time right now,

I create a dummy accountand they shut it down

within seven hours.

I got just enough time onthere to go and just peruse

and kind of go around,

it was so just the convictionthat I felt and I was like,

man, if this is what people are doing

to get into a relationshipjust doing this,

I was like this is notwhat God created for.

And so my encouragementis just be very careful

if you're gonna do it it'snot a sin, but it can be done.

But the reality is that

you do need to have theright support doing it

so you don't make a baddecision while you're doing it.

- Yeah, awesome.

All right, thank you, next question.

- Hi, my name is Racheland this question is mainly

for the ladies simply because I'm a lady,

but my question is inhymns an in worship songs

I hear a lot the term, ones and for all,

and in purity and in mydesire to surrender to purity,

to surrender to Jesus, my question is,

is this a once and for all done deal

or is it a daily surrenderthat you have to do?

Because I've heard different viewpoints

from different people.

- Great question I'llstart and toss it your way.

I think in all thingsinvolving our walk of faith

and our pursuit of, andrelationship with Jesus

it is a day in day out relationship.

It is active and alive.

It is coming back to the footof the cross and repentance.

It is rising up in His mercy and grace.

It is seeking His wisdom.

It is asking for an outpouring

and in dwelling of the Holy Spirit.

I mean, when it comes to puritylike we were talking about

virginity is the physicalmarker of chastity,

but purity is the heartmarker, a heart that is pure.

It is a condition of the heart.

And heart work is hard butholy, it is day in and day out.

And I would encourage youto continue to press in

walking in that, becausewe need the continued help

of the Holy Spirit in all things,

when temptation comes, whenpain, heartbreak comes,

when our wants and ouremotions kind of rule.

So it's hard work, ittakes intentionality,

but I would say it's aday in day out process

to remain pure and remainin step with the spirit.

If we live by the spirit,

let us remain in step with the spirit

is what Galatians says.

- So something that Ithink needs to be said

is that yes it's a daily commitment,

it's a daily recommitment even.

But one of the thingsthat I've faced a lot

is a lot of people sayI've already had sex

so it's too late for me

I can't practice the virtue of chastity.

And I just wanna make it very clear

that the virtue of chastity

is something you can startpracticing right now.

And that's like, the beauty of virtue

is you don't have tohave been virtuous before

to be virtuous starting now.

Okay, and so a lot of timeswhen people hear the word

chastity they think abstinence

and I just wanna clarify that as well.

My favorite definition ofchastity actually comes

from the catechism of the Catholic Church.

A virtue also, according tothe catechism is this decision.

It's basically like a habitual

and firm disposition to do good.

That's what the book says then.

And so it's like adecision you make every day

over and over to do the right thing.

And sex is the sacredphysical sign of the vows

that we take at marriage.

And so if we're gonna practicea virtue that's about sex

which chastity is, itmeans we decide every day

to do the right thing regarding sex.

And you can start deciding now

even if you never have before.

And it's also important to note

that all of that means thatchastity is for everyone

it doesn't matter if you'resingle or you're married,

because married people are alsocalled to do the right thing

regarding sex which means faithfulness

to the person you vowed to.

And it means not usingor abusing each other.

It means having sex for reasonsthat are more substantial

than just because one of us had an urge

it's not about that.

And I think it's really important

for everybody to go home knowing that

chastity is something youcan start practicing now.

- [Ashley] Yeah, definitely, amen, yeah.

(congregation clapping)

Next question.

- Hey, my name is Sam.

Mo, I wanna take a moment to say thank you

for publishing your book and your story.

My question is, what do youdo when it's also heartbreak

but you're on the opposite end of that

and you 'caused that whenyou do plan their proposal

plan international trip,do that last minute,

decide not to, what do you do with that?

Knowing you just absolutelycrushed somebody.

- The fact that you understand

that you're dealing with someone's heart,

and the fact that you havecompassion for this person,

even though you knowthat it wasn't something

that wasn't right,

shows that you're on the right path, man.

Like seriously, no breakupis easy, no breakup is easy,

every breakup is traumatic.

And I just wanna sayfirst and foremost, man,

I commend for just having a heart.

A lot of people they reallywouldn't have a heart about it.

I don't know, I'd have to know more

but do you feel like youmade the right decision?

- Yeah, but just still evenin that being finalized,

I mean my question is aboutmyself what do I do knowing

I didn't think I had it in the power in me

to absolutely level somebody in that way.

- Yeah well-

- Empty promises.

- I don't know why he broke off

and you guys can chime inif you guys need to at all,

but you have to know thatif you were convicted,

and if you broke this for a reason

that you just said that you you feel like

you broke it off for good reasons,

then that means that Godwas pressing on your heart.

And I need you to know

that God cares more aboutwho you're gonna marry

than even you carry about it,

that He wants you tomarry the right person

more than you even do.

So I know right now it's traumatic

and I don't want to diminish it at all,

but I want to let you knowthat God has someone for you.

And if He broke it off,

if He put that in yourheart to break it off

and if you know that thatwas the right decision,

then it's gonna take some timefor both of you guys to heal

and let that time happen.

There's power in pain.

Well, like I said earlier,but I'm proud of you.

It's a very hard decision.

- (indistinct) haveanything to say about that?

- I would add that I thinkthere is a lot of choices

that we have to make orthat we choose to make

that just aren't easy.

And there's a lot ofchoices that in particular

the Holy Spirit may impress on our hearts

and in exercising discernment,

it does not make any senseto us in the momentary,

or we can see the shock waves

the ripple effect that it will have,

or we're blindsided bythe impact and the power

that those choices carried.

But if you believe that youwere exercising discernment

in knowing this wasn't it, thenthat's a hard, hard choice.

And it is hard to see the intensity

with which we can affect other people.

We can truly hurt and wound others

just as easily as we canbe hurt and be wounded.

And so it's crushing and it's hard

but if there was discernment exercising

I think it's important thatwe come back to a place

of peace that surpasses understanding,

that we come back to a place of rest,

that we realized the decision was made,

and that we learn from the power

of how we are able toaffect the hearts of others.

I think it teaches us then in the future

for future relationships God-willing,

how to tend to hearts more carefully,

how to guard our heartsreally, really carefully,

scripture says to guard the heart

it's the wellspring of life.

But how to walk, to learnfrom that hard time,

and to grow in further discernment,

and also just grow in wisdomand understanding about

how to tend to a heartand the future as well.

But there are some decisionsI find so many people

it's like in a painful or hard choice,

they even start that cycleof coming back, coming back,

coming back, we wannafix it and tend to it.

Ultimately, we need to drawnear to the heart of God

and He will draw near to us,

and we need to intercedeand pray for that person

that God would draw nearto them, to comfort them,

to rebuild their heart as well,

to do what He is able to do,

and all of our words,and all of our texts,

and all of our hopefulthis and that can't mend,

but the Holy Spirit can mend hearts.

And so intercede for your former fiance.

Also just draw near to Him in comfort

and stand firm in your discernment

and your decision because it was made.

- Yeah, thank you so much for sharing.

- Thank you.- Thank you guys.

- [Man] Thank you everybody.

- Thank you for all of your questions.

I wish we had more time.

Please, please give it upone more time for our panel

seriously, you guys are amazing.

(congregation clapping)

And one more time weare encouraging you guys

to go to cbn.com/unhooked tobe a part of this campaign.

This is an encouragementfor all of you guys

in your season of singleness.

This is not a season of hopelessness.

God wants you to thriveexactly where He's placed you.

So we wanna help you along that journey.

So go to cbn.com/unhooked,

to sign up for the 40 dayintimacy fast devotional,

and to also get this awesome journal.

And we're gonna also have amazing content

from these people right here.

I mean, I wish we had more time.

They're amazing, butthank you guys so much.

God bless you and have a great night.

(congregation clapping)

(gentle music)